Building G8.1/BR55

1. offizieller Beitrag

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    Hi,

    If I write in english will it be understandable by most? Or should I use a translator to convert to German.

    This is what I want to build. Ich möchte diese Lokomotive bauen 1.11 Scale.

    I bought the original plans of Zander Heba. Ich habe die Originalpläne von Zander Heba gekauft.

    Are there model plans for this or should I continue to create my own? Gibt es einen Modellplan oder sollte ich weiterhin eigene Pläne machen?


    I am not sure how to approach the axlebox design . Ich bin mir nicht sicher, wie ich mich dem Achslager-Design nähern soll

    Any help will be appreciated. Jede Hilfe wird geschätzt.

    Danke vielmals

    Ian

    Hi Ian,

    many Forum User will be capable to read Your posts; by far not all can read in English. The output of translation engines is so terrible, I am glad if I don't have to read it.

    Writing English may be a bigger obstacle so be prepared to get answers in German.

    Its my understanding You now jave only drawings for 1:1 scale. Its my guess there are no plans in 1:11 available but I am not the expert for steamer builds in this forum because I have never built a steamer nor do I plan to do so in near future-

    Regards Mike

    Thanks Mike.

    Hi Wolfgang,


    Yes easy enough to convert more or less, except there is so much detail in the drawing that at the resolution it was scanned, that it gets very hard to read some of it. Have you built a locomotive?

    This will be my first! Will be 1:11 scale. Materials are a bit of a problem here, old days you could buy off cuts, now they only sell full lengths or part by size.

    Not sure how much to make out of steel? brass or steel boiler ....... etc? Went looking for brass angles, i'll make it to ridiculous. I think if I make frame out of steel (most likely). I would like to be a locomotive.

    Sample part of drawing ....

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    regards

    Ian

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von datman (8. März 2019 um 05:37)

    Hi Ian,

    it would be easier for us to response, if we knew a bit more about you - how familiar you are with steam locomotives, what models you have built, what machines you have, what your skills are etc. It makes no sense to write something you allready know, or on the other side, something other supposing some deeper knowledge on your side, but which you don´t have. It´s a tradition in this forum to post a short "curriculum vitae" in "Vorstellung Forenmitglieder"... ;)

    Regards...

    Kristian

    Just to illustrate:

    When you know, what the distinct original parts usually looked like, how they were made and what´s their function, so it´s not so difficult to select the appropriate lines and construct the wanted parts (and would be even easier seeing the upside view ;) ) It´s really not important, how parts look inside - lubrication channels etc. Most important is the functionality, all other may be adjusted to "model reality"! From the original drawings you essentially can use only the main dimensions and shapes, as you will definitely have to change or simplify many details - a 0,5 mm thick flange won´t "live" very long, you won´t get sheet metal of 1,8 or 2,3 mm thickness or may not able to weld those little triangle ribs, just to mention some examples.

    Regards...

    Kristian

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    Hi Kristian,

    Thanks for the heads up, I have now posted an introduction in the forum :). Thanks for the drawings, very good, I do have a general understanding of this system, but I am curious of the original design with the wedge. I assume the wedge is to take up wear, but then I think wont this affect the connecting rods etc? I have since found out more since posting above about the original construction which i find interesting.

    I am certainly after do's and dont's in the building a scale steam locomotive. Things like, do I fabricate the horns, do I see if I can cast them or find someone to cast for me? I have lots of questions but I will ask as I go.

    Just curious, what cad program did you use for the above drawings?

    Thanks

    Ian

    Hi Ian

    I haven’t built a steam loco. I bought 2 kitset from Germany 2 locomotives Kof II and a E69 and a few parts to build some wagons. The Kof is finish so far just needs painting.

    We are sheet metal fabricators and manufacture HVAC ducting and fittings. I buy all my steel requirements from Steel & Tube. They will even cut you a steel disk if you want to make your own wheels. Brass profiles angle, flats, z section under 10mm are very hard to get in New Zealand. Some model shops have a small amount but never longer then 300mm. I imported my brass from Germany.

    Otherwise there is Mico Metals. They have brass and copper. You may like to contact the Manukau live steamers, pretty sure someone there built their own steam loco and knows were to get the related materials.

    Regards

    Wolfgang

    Hi Wolfgang,

    I work for an engineering company so I am familiar with standard suppliers and materials, the smaller stuff is the issue. What company did you import the brass from?

    I have a lathe and today brought a mill to fix in my garage. I am the hands on type person, always building things, so building this loco is not too far off what I might normally tackle. The key for me is to actually finish a project ......

    What gauge are the locos? will you have a track to run on?

    Regards

    Ian

    Hi Ian

    I bought my brass from the same guy were I bought the kit sets from

    https://lok-waggonbau.de/index.php?article_id=64

    or try this on

    https://knupfer.info/shop/index.php…=messing+winkel

    or this

    https://www.modellbau-profi.de/messingprofile…=catalog&p=1130

    The Locos are 5 inch and yes I got some track but not in the garden. Is on the shelf here in the workshop and during the Xmas shut down or on long weekends I set it up in the workshop.

    I love it….. I think the next weekend is Easter and Anzac day. May shut down that Friday and have 2x4 day weekends.

    We have everything here in the workshop from screwdriver to a fiber laser but no lathe or mill.;(;(;(

    Mmmmh ….actually finish a project…..reminds me of someone….

    Regards

    Wolfgang

    Hi Ian,

    the 3D is made in Fusion 360, which has been recommended to me by guys in an open 3D-workshop, where I got in touch with 3D-printing (maybe you have found this). As it´s the first 3D-CAD I have ever used, I can´t compare with other SW. Its greatest advantage: it´s free for hobbyists :thumbup:and there is a plenty of videos on YT you can learn from (the best: Lars Christensen).

    Wedge: The bearings are aligned to the vertical side of the opening (situated towards the front end of the loco, as that mostly moves forward), so the alignment doesn´t change with adjusting the wedge by the screw at its bottom end. But I´m sure, some (or many?) guys build their model locos without wedges.

    Regards

    Kristian

    Hi Wolfgang,

    Fiber laser sounds like fun...... you can cut brass copper and aluminium with that...........

    That last site you mention had an excellent selection of brass thanks. Its going to be a long project..............

    Thanks Tristian,

    I have mostly solidworks, I use it at work a fair bit at times. Free is good! I will probably go with the wedges, a little extra work.......

    What material should I use for the frame? Steel(cheaper)? Brass (way more expensive, easier to work, does not rust)? any other advantages, disadvantages of using either material? use a mixture?

    If you use steel, do you paint the metal before riveting together?

    regards

    Ian

    Hallo Ian

    try

    http://www.ateliermb.ch/shops/gussteile/ch/en-uk/index.html

    in Switzerland, they did ship to the UK, certainly also to NS.

    Large Selection available...

    They made some special wheels for me/

    If your wheels should be not yet in their scope, they will make them for you (at a higher price).

    Future builders in need for your wheels will be gretefull then.

    Good luck

    Johannes

    Zitat von Echtdampf-Anfänger

    Wedge: But I´m sure, some (or many?) guys build their model locos without wedges.

    Regards

    Kristian

    Hi Ian and Kristian,

    from what I've heard and seen from model builders, more model engines are built without wedges than with wedges built in. My guess is with decreasing model gauge the percentage with wedges approaches zero.

    Main reason for those wedges is wear compensation. But what wear do You want to compensate on a model steamer?? Wear from a few days of operation for several hours? Remember full size engines operated most days of the year for many hours.

    Mike

    Zitat von Echtdampf-Anfänger

    Maybe wear from imprecise machining? ;)

    K.

    Okay, if You are not willing or capable to machine fair tolerances, using adjustable elements like wedges or screws are a valid solution. I personally wouldn't do this because of the not so tight tolerances for axle boxes. They need some play to compensate for axle movement and because of the unavoidale tolerances in the frames.

    Me personal believe is that there are a dozen or more parts on a steamer who need closer tolerances. But if someone thinks wedges would help in building, why not.

    Something not to forget is however, axleboxes with wedges are more complex thus they will need more operations and time to machine - giving new opportunities for error while machining.

    Mike

    Thanks Johannes for the info.

    Interesting thoughts. What tolerance is a recommended between the frame and axlebox? How much vertical suspension movement do you need in the axle?

    Ian

    Das hängt von mehreren Faktoren ab,

    die man während der Konstruktion oft noch nicht genau kennt:

    Gewicht der betriebsbereiten Lok

    Anzahl Achsen

    Anzahl der angetriebenen Achsen

    "Weichheit" und Art der Federung

    Länge des verfügbaren Federweges

    Qualität der Strecke

    Kurvenradien

    etc

    Die Federkraft und das Verhalten einer Federung skaliert nicht direkt oder irdendwie einfach linear mit dem Maßstab.

    Die Beste Option ist so, wie es manche Modellbauer in UK tun:

    Man beginnt mit der Federung einer 'ähnlichen Lok" und verwendet standardisierte Federwendeln / Durchmesser.

    Es gibt dort drüben immer noch Firmen, die für wenig Geld ein paar Meter Federwendel in einer

    benachbarten Härte, aber mit dem gleichen Durchmesser anbieten. Man probiert eben ...

    Es darf kein schädliches Spiel der Achsen oder Lagerblöcke in Fahrtrichtung geben, denn sonst leiden die Kuppelstangen.

    Detallierte, maßstäbliche Achslagerführungen sind vielleicht nett, aber idR unsichtbar und nicht wirklich notwendig.

    Overkill nach meiner Meinung. Wartungsmöglichkeiten sind essentiell.

    Das Material der Achlager und die Qualität der Oberflächen zwischen Achsen und Achlagern ist für den

    Fahrspaß mit der Lok oder der Lebensdauer von Bauteilen und Lok viel wichtiger...

    Und...

    DU willst mit der Lok Fahrspaß haben,

    der Spaß, den Deine Erben beim Verkauf Deines Nachlasses haben, ist da nebensächlich, OK?

    Gruß

    Johannes

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Ian,

    produce your axleboxes like those of the prototype, you want to build a model(!) or not(?),tolerance between axleboxes and frame should be 0.1mm not more , you should realize a vertical suspension movement at least of 3mm up and down (!). I think with these key data you will get a round vote.

    Happy building

    Chris

    Das Licht am Ende des Tunnels könnte auch ein Zug sein !!! :D Ich bin der Fräser Eilig, was ich nicht fräs das feil ich.... Genitiv ins Wasser weil es Dativ ist :pinch:

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Steamchris (12. März 2019 um 15:10)